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Xian
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Doc
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Location: North Vancouver, BC, Canada
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 Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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Nice!
Congrats Nick... again...
Curious - how does an Armoured Co (even if it is Orky) get an Immolator?
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Jason "Doc" Dyer
26x GT attendee; Best Painted, and 4x Best Sport
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Rough Rider
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 3:50 am Post subject: |
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Yeah I was wondering that too.  |
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sliganian
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Rough Rider wrote: | | Yeah I was wondering that too. |
And THAT'S WHY folks should stick to Codex lists.
It is more fair to the opponents and the organizers who have to sort out the legality of the lists.
There, I said it out loud. Pulling on asbestos suit for impending flame war as we speak...  |
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Senekal
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Doc wrote: | Nice!
Congrats Nick... again...
Curious - how does an Armoured Co (even if it is Orky) get an Immolator? |
Any Imperial army can take Witch Hunter allies.
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Mike Major
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Senekal
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| sliganian wrote: | | Rough Rider wrote: | | Yeah I was wondering that too. |
And THAT'S WHY folks should stick to Codex lists.
It is more fair to the opponents and the organizers who have to sort out the legality of the lists.
There, I said it out loud. Pulling on asbestos suit for impending flame war as we speak... |
And if we did so - two very lovely armies would never have been seen at our events. This one included.
Honestly lads, even should it turn out that there is some technicality that prevents an AC from taking Witch Hunter allies (although I don't think there is, but I could be wrong) does it really matter? It could as easily have been fielded as another Hellhound, or a chimera with twin heavy flamers.
But because we allow so much - we all got to enjoy the beauty that was Walkin' Thunda. I'll take that over being anal about how many seraphim can dance on top of a Mark VII Astartes helmet any day. Obviously we don't want to allow things illegal, but freaking out over what was clearly an accident or interpretation that no one thought of until later - that's of no benefit to anyone.
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Loud Howard
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Joined: 16 Sep 2007
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Location: Brampton Ont.
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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As the owner of said "Immolator", let me just clarify a few things. I had seen sister (and inquisition) units taken in Armoured Battlegroup armies at Astro before so it seemed to me that they were being counted as Imperial Guard armies for the purpose of them being able to take allies. Of course, I figured it was best to make sure, so I e-mailed Mike and Christian to see if it would be permitted again this year as I felt the battle sister stat line would fit my idea of a grot in a Looted Stealth Suit quite well (what with the 3+ save and all).
My apologies if this caused any confusion for anyone. The army was a crazy idea that had been floating around in my head for a while and with uncertainty about 5th edition's rules on the horizon, I figured Astro (being one of the few events that would allow my army) could be my last chance to use it how I had envisioned outside of an Apocalypse game. So I took that chance.
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Astro Toronto 2007: I came, I saw, I got my clock cleaned in half my games and loved every minute of it!
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Rough Rider
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Now that I think of it I'm not sure that it is illegal- I had forgotten about the "Allies rule" which I am sure is worded very similarily (if not exactly) to the one in the Daemonhunters codex (the bit about "any imperial Guard army and it's variants"). |
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Senekal
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Rough Rider wrote: | | Now that I think of it I'm not sure that it is illegal- I had forgotten about the "Allies rule" which I am sure is worded very similarily (if not exactly) to the one in the Daemonhunters codex (the bit about "any imperial Guard army and it's variants"). |
I'm pretty sure it's allowed too - but Ed has been known to trip me up with that encyclopedic memory of his.
I bet Xian looked it up before telling Tom it was okay though.
Anyone want to double check in their Witch Hunter book (who isn't at work like me?)
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Mike Major
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Doc
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Joined: 24 Aug 2006
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Location: North Vancouver, BC, Canada
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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I asked this of GW one year, when I was playing AC at on the GT circuit. they were quite explicit that the Armoured Co was NOT an Imperial Guard army per se and would therefore NOT be allowed allies as a normal IG list would.
Pretty much sucked!
But if the Astro-team want to interpret AC as allies-allowed that is good.
Kroot and tanks 
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Jason "Doc" Dyer
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Senekal
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Loud Howard wrote: |
My apologies if this caused any confusion for anyone. The army was a crazy idea that had been floating around in my head for a while and with uncertainty about 5th edition's rules on the horizon, I figured Astro (being one of the few events that would allow my army) could be my last chance to use it how I had envisioned outside of an Apocalypse game. So I took that chance. |
When you asked and were told it was good - you operated in the best of good faith and sportsmanship.
If Xian and I gave you a wrong ruling - then that responsibility is ours, not yours. You've nothing at all to apologize for mate and the army was a true and total joy to see. The kind of thing that makes Astro what it is.
If there was an error, it is we who should be apologizing and we will. But the heat is ours.
The credit for all that work that everyone loved so much - that's yours and you should be (rightfully) proud of it.
Finally - to clarify. Xian and I try REALLY hard not to make boo boos. But we are also human and we do sometimes screw up. We try hard to make it good to those afflicted when we do and we try hard to own up to our mistakes and learn from them and apologize for them.
If an error was made in this case - we're at fault. No one else. And the blame is ours if so.
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Mike Major
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Loud Howard
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Joined: 16 Sep 2007
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Location: Brampton Ont.
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Senekal wrote: |
When you asked and were told it was good - you operated in the best of good faith and sportsmanship.
If Xian and I gave you a wrong ruling - then that responsibility is ours, not yours. You've nothing at all to apologize for mate and the army was a true and total joy to see. The kind of thing that makes Astro what it is.
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Oh don't worry, it's nothing that I'm getting discouraged about it or anything. I just realize that there is some potential for confusion whenever the "counts as" rule is used and using an allied unit may have made that more likely to happen.
And about differing rules at different tourneys, it happens all the time. It's all just a matter of the interpretation the people running the event have. The rules aren't 100% clear in all cases, so if you ask me it's inevitable that there will be different takes on certain things from place to place. I think this is likely just one of those cases.
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Astro Toronto 2007: I came, I saw, I got my clock cleaned in half my games and loved every minute of it!
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Xian
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Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 354
Location: Winnipeg Canada
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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The great thing about both the Inquisition lists is that you can draw from them to increase the theme of your existing Imperial armies.
We all know that Armoured Companies have it pretty difficult at Astronomi-con. The objective based scenarios and the like make for an uphill battle in most games.
Our vision is to be as inclusive as we can when it comes down to it (Forgeworld, VDR, White Dwarf, and our own Rogue Trader inspired themes in our scenarios), and in the case of Armoured Battle Group and Armoured Companies we count them in the same vein as any Imperial Guard force.
So, in the end we decided to embrace the spirit of the rules instead of perhaps the exact written word and allow Daemonhunters or Witch Hunter allies for these lists. In fact, it may well be that the White Dwarf and Forgeworld army lists came out after the Daemonhunter and Witch Hunter lists were published so they could not be written to explicitly include these new lists as potential allied forces.
Looking at it from the other side of the table, would you rather face yet another AV 14 tank instead of that immolator with a half a dozen Sisters of Battle on board?
+++
Let's face it. We've bent the rules a fair bit when it comes to what people have been used to - as far as tournament formats go. The latest being our own version of the Lost and the Damned army list. A codex that GW has all but left for dead.
Ultimately it is up to the tournament organizers to set the rules for what happens in a tournament and how things are going to be scored.
The vast majority of people that run tournaments will take the defacto standard Hall of Heroes format and just go with that. It's simple, easy, and well, standard. Low risk, and people know what to expect. Safe.
But even those systems have evolved a fair bit during their lifetimes. From the original Rogue Trader tournaments, to the rebranding of Hall of Heroes. The Original GT's, Conflicts, and our own Astronomi-con format all have evolved, risen and fallen over the years.
Soon, we'll be in a position to offer prospective tournament organizers a new standardized Astronomi-con style format for their own events and that may well change the 40k tournament landscape we've come to accept over the years - Astronomi-con notwithstanding.
Time will tell, but in the end, it really is all about having a lot of fun with toy soldiers and good friends.
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Christian Augst
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